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Trenton, NJ Anti-Vaccination Rally


Do Vaccines Cause Autism?

There is a lovely little gathering just wrapping up in NJ’s state capitol of Trenton this afternoon. Somewhere near 1000 200 protesters are rallying for the passing of a pair of new proposed bills (A260 and S1071) that would allow for conscientious exemption by parents for their children’s routine vaccinations. It is just one more example of unfounded allegations leading to a hysteria of the uninformed.

The organization at the forefront, organizing the rally and pushing hard the agenda, is the innocuously-named New Jersey Coalition for Vaccination Choice. They have a perfectly distilled down list of reasons why vaccination should not be mandatory, distilled down for the simple folk who might not understand all the complicated study results regarding the safety and efficacy of childhood vaccines. And, without fail, coming in at number 8:

Vaccination has been proven to cause Autism.

This is exciting news! They’ve obviously conducted some sort of clinical trial, and found a causal link?! Nope, guess again. They just regurgitate the same tired claims; including the incredibly scientific SurveyUSA study. Conducted by telephone. And I quote:

“of more than 9,000 boys in California and Oregon and found that vaccinated boys had a 155% greater chance of having a neurological disorder like ADHD or autism than unvaccinated boys.”

Well, lets take a look at this claim. What is it really saying, if anything. 

First, the survey is limited to California and Oregon. So we have not eliminated the possibility of a geographic factor. Second, and as I said before it was a telephone-based study. This relies on people responding honestly to a telephone soliciter — this is not how real scientific studies are conducted. Any number of factors could be at play here, conspiring to create this result. Perhaps a certain percentage of the respondents lied. Still more may have self-diagnosed their children.

Furthermore, I find the wording of the statement interesting. Why do they only mention the statistics for boys? Could it be because the statistics for girls do not make their case for them? If you whittle a dataset down enough, cherrypicking your limiters, you can find a correlation between almost anything. If you look at a specific enough sample group, you can probably find a positive correlative link between cigarette smoking and Olympic achievements.

Another telling portion of their statement is that they say a “neurological disorder like ADHD or autism”. Like is a weasal word; your definition of like may not be my definition of like. Who knows how many different self-reported-by-telephone disorders were marked as an autism “hit”?

The organizations entire premise is based on worthless studies and conjecture. The other 9 reasons autism shouldn’t be mandatory range from being patently false, to creating straw-man arguments for vaccination proponents and tearing down positions they don’t hold. 

In conclusion. If you’re for vaccination choice, thats just fine. We live in a democratic society, and what the people want they should get. But, they, along with organizations such as NJCVC have a responsibility to be informed.

Viewing 65 Comments

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    This is one of those crazy untouchable topics. No one wants to be the bastard that is "against" preventing autism. Organizations like NJCVC can get away with a lot when they appeal to people's emotions like this.
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    I agree. I think the irony is that they're doing the study of the disorder more harm than good. They're using up resources and peoples charitable donations, as well as air time and attention, on a route that ultimately isn't going to do anything for the autistic population.
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    The only decent point this author made is that we live in a Democratic society. Thank you Andrew for finally making this clear!! Democracy is about freedom. We, as Americans, take this word for granted. Freedom is about choices, freedom is about giving consent . Regardless of what side of the fence you are on with this issue, we as Americans, we as parents, must have the freedom to consent to (or allow) a biological agent (a vaccine) to be injected into the bloodstream of our children. This is a black and white issue! But, everyone (especially the media) is making this a grey issue. If a parent does not want to consent, the government should not force a parent against their will. FREEDOM = CONSENT. If I don't have the freedom to make a decision on behalf of the welfare of my children, then I'm not truly free - am I? I guess it all depends on how the State of NJ defines the word FREEDOM on any particular day.
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    Unfortunately Maria, we sure don't live in a black and white world.

    What about the freedoms of the other children to not be exposed to the virus? What about the freedoms of the rest of the population of the school systems to enjoy the community immunity brought by mass-vaccinations, so they don't have to worry about contracting polio?

    My children have a right to be protected from the misplaced fears and mass paranoia of the uninformed, and I'm sorry, but their right to not be exposed to your unvaccinated children trumps your right to put your children at risk.
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    Andrew, I’m not going to debate you on the studies performed or whether anti-freeze is an ingredient because I am not an expert in those areas. What bothers me about your response to me is you are basically saying that your vaccinated child is more important than my unvaccinated child. What tires me about this issue is we should be talking about protecting ALL children! Your vaccinated, supposedly safe child does not trump mine! Let’s get away from the “autism-vaccine” link for a minute. What studies need to look at is ALL toxicity – environment, pesticides, mercury, aluminum, vaccines, etc – all of it! My personal belief is that the disorders we are seeing in our children (autism, auto-immune diseases, ADHD, food allergies, asthma, ADD – and the list goes on) are due to a number of factors – genetics, toxicity from the environment, compromised immune systems, and the inability to efficiently excrete toxins. I believe my last statement is the catalyst and “too many vaccines injected over a small period of time” is the trigger – which would explain why some kids are affected after their vaccinations and some kids are not. Read this link about how vaccines are made and about autoimmune disease. http://www.billgrayhomeopathy.com/FluShot.html

    Now, speaking from personal experience, I have the perfect “vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated” study being conducted under my roof as I speak! My oldest son started receiving his vaccinations at 5 months old; I did one at a time – eventually he received 2 doses of IPV, 2 doses of Hib, and 3 doses of DTaP. My son never had a reaction or a fever, but he did miss some minor milestones – clapping, waving, mimicking expressions of others; he was non-verbal – only said dada; and he developed some sound and sensory issues – for example, when people clapped at church, he got really afraid and I had to calm him down. He also banged his head on everything when he was angry. At 22 months, I had him evaluated by Early Intervention, and they said his expressive language was on a 15 month level. Now, this is a child who received vaccinations starting at 5 months old, on a much slower schedule than what is recommended by the CDC, and fewer shots than what is recommended by the CDC schedule – and he still developed a speech delay. My younger son (14 months younger) never received vaccinations because he always had a runny nose, cough, or an ear infection at his well visits. To make a long story short, he had an allergy to dairy that I had to diagnose on my own without the assistance from my pediatrician because he did not believe in food allergies. Then, I decided to get a toxic element report on both of my sons – they both had some mercury and lead toxicity, but both were highly toxic in aluminum and arsenic. They both were deficient in essential elements (like B12, selenium, manganese – to name a few) that are needed to bind toxins and safely dispose of them from the body. Both of my sons are toxic, however one is vaccinated and the other isn’t. Hmmm . . . my younger son is extremely toxic in aluminum just like my older son, but he wasn’t vaccinated. I then read an article that baby formula has traces of aluminum. Hmmm . . . maybe my story further supports my earlier statement “that toxins in our environment is the catalyst and vaccines pull the trigger”. So, if I had followed the CDC recommended vaccine schedule, there is a high probability that both of my sons would be somewhere on the autism spectrum or they would have some form of developmental delay. My younger, unvaccinated son met all his milestones and does not have a speech delay at all. Due to what is happening under my roof, I have decided to stop all vaccinations. On top of all of this, I’m now finding out that I have a family history of celiac disease (I’m more than 99% sure I’m celiac) and I just found out I have auto immune thyroid disease – as well as inflammatory bowel disease. Now these are 3 more risk factors that would make my sons more vulnerable to the toxins in vaccines.

    Andrew, I’m sharing this with you because change needs to be made! We are years and years away in finding out what exactly causes autism and all these other disorders. Right now, we need change because our kids are toxic. Parents in NJ need choice and should be allowed to consent to certain vaccines or opt out all together. NJ also needs to question the current CDC mandated schedule. There is no need to inject so many vaccines into our children at such a young age – especially when liver function is very immature! You need a fully functioning liver to eliminate this junk, and infant’s livers are not fully mature yet. Let’s slow things down, push out some of the vaccines that are not life threatening (Hep B, Hep A. Rotateq, flu, chicken pox, MMR), and foster the growth and build the immune systems of our children. No 2 children are alike, and it is criminal that the CDC and State of NJ are inflicting the same shots on all kids over a short period of time – regardless of the state of their immune system, their family history, whether the child has the ability to properly excrete toxins, or possible mitochondria (sp?) defect. We parents know our children much better than The State of NJ! I need choice to protect my kids because I already know what is happening in their tiny bodies, due to the biochemistry tests I ordered for them. I’m educated, I’m involved, and I’m a darn good mother – I deserve to have consent on any medical intervention that carries risk. End of story!

    And Andrew . . . please take your eyeball off that so called picture of yours. That’s skeeving (sp?) me out! You look like a pedophile!!
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    Oh Andrew . . . I forgot to give you these links that discuss aluminum toxicity.
    http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child...

    http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/health/...

    Per Dr. Sears, who is pro-vaccination (but extremely cautious), "As a medical doctor, my first instinct was to worry that these aluminum levels far exceed what may be safe for babies. My second instinct was to assume that the issue had been properly researched, and that studies had been done on healthy infants to determine their ability to rapidly excrete aluminum. My third instinct was to search for these studies. So far, I have found none. ... I can find no references in FDA documents that show that using aluminum in vaccines has been tested and found to be safe."
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    Are you seriously quoting a webpage with this:

    http://fourwinds10.com/siterun_static/general/o...

    As their "mission" statement?
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    You linked to a homeopathic website? Guh.

    Please. If you want to help your children, stop with this nonsense. Stop believing everything you read, stop with the pseudoscience. Do some real research, check your sources. Homeopathy is nonsense. Categorically and across the board.

    You got a toxicity report done by a real medical practitioner? Or did you get it performed by an "alternative" (read: quack) "healer".

    If you are really using these kinds of sources to decide how to best care for your children, I am honestly afraid for them.
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    I just saw your pics and I can't believe I am conversing with a child!! For your information, I'm not going to a quack. I've seeked the advice of a RD, CCN - double licensed healthcare practicioner. I'm done. The whole point of your website is to make people look foolish and argue with them. I get it! You GOT me!! I can't believe I have been arguing with a 12 yr old, cyber geek.

    Well, cyber geek - don't forget to read Dr. Sear's article and educate yourself on Aluminum - not the aluminum you drink your sodas out of.
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    A registered dietitian. That is, a bachelors degree in diatetics. Alrighty.
    What, pray tell, is a CCN?
    You most definitely did link to quacks in substantiating your argument.

    I'm not sure where to start with your, just, biting, scathing indictment. 12
    year old? Obviously, I'm not. However I fail to see how it would matter if I
    was. The facts are the facts.

    But I guess you don't let those get in your way, and logic obviously isn't
    your strong suit.

    Just, fyi, it is the aluminum they make aluminum cans from.
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    And perhaps you should reread the article, this is little more than a comment on brand choice within vaccines. So, if the excerpt is to be believed, and if you fear aluminum toxicity, opt for the vaccines that don't contain aluminum. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

    Furthermore, he cites absolutely no sources. And the article appears to be little more than an advertisement for his book. This is not an excerpt from a peer-reviewed journal, its a clip from a book on Oprah's book list.

    Ever wonder what his motivations might be? Why sell a book? Why not just do the research and submit it to a journal that is peer reviewed?
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    Wow . . . You took down your link to your pictures of you on your bike . . . your girlfriend Gina . . . Washington D.C. Did I hit a nerve?

    Aluminum (as in aluminum cans) is not the same as Aluminum hydroxide - which is what is in vaccines. Oh, and look what I found at an insurance company website: "It is not known whether aluminum hydroxide will harm an nursing baby. Do not take this medication without first talking to your doctor if you are breast-feeding a baby.". So, it's not safe for a breast-feeding baby, but it's safe to inject into the bloodstream of infants.

    Maybe Dr. Sears' motivations is to educate the public, educate new mothers, educate parents - everyday people who do not know where to go to read medical journals. And, almost ALL of Dr. Sears' peers are brain washed and paid off by Big Pharma - expensive dinners, golf outings, weekends in VT, broadway shows in NYC. So, why would he waste his time with his peers who already know everything? Now, I'm wondering why I'm wasting my time with you because you already know everything. Come on Andrew, how old are you? If you're not 12, I'll give you 18 - but nothing more.
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    Nope, your ill-conceived ramblings most certainly didn't hit a nerve. Just would like to limit the comments from lunatics to this site. Googling my name will turn up all the information and pictures your little heart desires.

    The aluminum in aluminum hydroxide (or alhydrogel) is most certainly the same.

    http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20040129/al...

    You're creating a false dichotomy, why does he have to either write his book or submit his findings to a peer-reviewed journal? Why can't he do both?

    I realize now theres no convincing you. You have chosen your way of thinking and thats the end of that. People with the kind of massive conspiracy thinking that you subscribe to cannot be dissuaded, its an unfalsifiable loop. If I produce a study, "big pharma" funded it. If a doctor says vaccines are safe, hes in the pocket of "big pharma".

    I really adore the fact that you're claiming I'm nothing more than an uneducated 12 or (as you so liberally gave me) 18 year old, and the simple fact is you've been unable to counter any of the evidence I produced with anything more than anecdotes and witty little references to time wasting.
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    I see you are now putting words in my mouth. I never said you were "uneducated". It apears you have too much education, and not eough "real world" experience. Fear not, Andrew! I am in no need of your convincing. I live in the real world. Dr. Sears doesn't have to submit his findings because there is nothing to submit! He has done no studies on aluminum safety. He was merely saying he couldn't find that ANYONE at the FDA has performed such studies. So, what data is there that he's supposed to submit in a journal to his peers? Furthermore, he has the right to write a book based on his medical knowledge, personal experiences, and recommendations. It's called, "The American Dream". As for my massive conspiracy thinking, hmmm . . . that's an interesting comment. All I have done is monitored my son's development after he received 3 vaccines administered over 7 months . . . noticed he missed several important development milestones & developed sensory issues . . . then decided to research vaccine ingredients - reaching the conclusion that I would like to have vaccine choice and consent as a parent. Boy, that is some massive conspiracy thinking. What planet do you live on again? BTW, you've never submitted any evidence for me to counter! You must have me confused with someone else - maybe Amie. I know she has countered your evidence, time and time again with actual website addresses. But, you have chosen not to post her entire posting. Again, you are conroling the conversation (the data) making it look all one sided (your side). You and me . . . we've been in a war of words basically . . . a little cat fight among the girls!
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    I find your post to be incredibly ignorant as you only put down two very disputable points. Vaccines have not been "proven to cause autism" nor have they been proved not to. AND that is where the problem lies. Autism is an epidemic and any scientist can tell you that epidemics CANNOT be genetic. Which means autism IS environmental. Now I don't care if autism is caused by vaccines, medications, the food we eat or pollution. Frankly it doesn't matter. What does matter is that NOTHING is being done to determine what is causing these children so much harm. So if the FDA, CDC, pharmaceutical companies, etc. are so certain that vaccines are not causing our children's autism, then where are the independent double blind studies to prove it?!?! Before they can say there is no vaccine autism link they need to have the science behind it.

    Let me just tell you a few things I do know about vaccinations.
    They contain mercury (still), formaldehyde, aluminum, antifreeze, sodium borate, MSG, polysorbate 80, etc.
    Sodium Borate by the way is a common roach killer. Its use has been linked to seizures, paralysis and infertility. According to a 2005 listing at The National Library of Medicine (NLM) of the National Institutes of Health, Sodium borate "is now known to be a dangerous poison, it is no longer commonly used in medical preparations.” It is, however, still present in vaccines.
    Polysorbate 80 is a known carcinogen.
    A lot of people will say that there are only trace amounts of all of these toxins, but I can tell you that it takes only micrograms of mercury for a neuron (brain cell) to break apart. And these heavy metals that babies are being injected with become ever more potent if it is in combination with another heavy metal. Remember now that there have been no studies done with more than one vaccine given at the same time.

    There is also absolutely no proof that vaccines actually protect individuals from illness. Diseases such as the measles, scarlet fever, whooping cough, and diphtheria were already on the decline before the introduction of vaccines. This is due to better sanitation. I personally know people who have gotten the measles and mumps despite being fully vaccinated.

    The reason boys are more often mentioned is because the rates of autism and adhd are higher in boys. 1 in 60 boys in NJ has autism. From the research that I have done this may be due to the fact that chemicals can piggy-back on testosterone in order to cross the blood brain barrier. (The BBB is the body’s natural way of preventing viruses and toxins from affecting the brain.)

    If you ask me, it all fits. Unfortunately, I do not have the money or anyone to back a study to prove it. And I’m not likely to find one as pharmaceutical companies are dead set against their major source of income being taken away. The few doctors and scientists who try to take a stance against vaccination are often thrown out of the scientific community while the pharm companies are allowed to continually fund biast, incomplete and unscientific studies.

    "Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection." Dr. A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine (lecture to Italian doctors in Piacenze, Italy, December 7th, 1985)

    "There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunization of children does more harm than good." Dr J Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine Control Officer, US Food and Drug Administration
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    andrew, i must ask, if your child is vaccinated, why would there be any worry that they would get it? if vaccines do as the makers claim, your child shouldnt be at risk? isnt that why you got your child vaccinated? or do you not have faith in the reliability of your vaccines?

    and lets look at the fact other states allow exemptions already or have very few required vaccines. they are functioning just fine. you have to give a little credit to the pharma companies being the driving force?
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    Well Amie thanks for commenting, and a few things:

    Ranking of states for prevalence of autism (NJ is not #1 on any study I could find):
    http://www.fightingautism.org/idea/autism-state...

    Take a look at the top pharmaceutical companies based on revenue:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceut...

    You'll find that there aren't 17 out of the top 20 based in the US, much less NJ.

    So if this is a cross sampling of the FACTS you learned from the rally, you might want to start considering just how much accuracy there was at this little get together.

    Moving on. I didn't say the rally "said" that autism was caused by vaccine, I merely pointed out the official stance of the organizing company of the rally. I have no doubt there were some people present that were not, as you say, anti-vaccine.

    However, if you read the bill, you will see that it is quite anti-vaccine. The very fact that a bill like this is being pushed gives the impression that there is something to be worried about regarding vaccines. A position that has -never- had any significant study to back it up. I could get in to the dangers of all of this with you, effects hysteria propogated by people like Oprah have had in third world countries, etc, but you can look in to it yourself if you're interested.

    Moving forward with your argument. You speak of parents relaying timelines of events with their own child. This is what is called anecdotal evidence.

    I'm not sure where you're getting this mercury claim from. Thimerosol (the mercury-containing preservative) has been removed from the all of the MMR vaccine since 2002. Even prior to that, the amount of mercury in the vaccines were WELL BELOW the level considered harmful. Now the trace amounts are less than what you are exposed to during the course of everyday life. I encourage you not to take my word for it, and to look in to it yourself.

    So if those were more facts from the rally, you make my point for me.

    Regarding your suggestion of vaccines for people emigrating to the US, take a look at:
    http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem...

    I am for choice. When its an informed choice. Ironically, you are exactly why I'm against these types of bills being passed. I mean no disrespect, but you obviously have no knowledge of the issue. You have not done any research, and you are parroting what you heard at either this rally, or another one like it. How do I know this? Because I've heard all the claims you've made here time and time again, and with even a cursory amount of research, they are quite easily disproven.

    So I am most definitely for freedom, however, I am not for exposing my children to the conditions that misinformed parents (?) such as yourself would create for them.
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    So really quickly, Amie. Look up herd (or community) immunity. Look in to how viruses mutate. There you have your answer.
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    And Courtney, I really. I don't know what to say. I've heard the "vaccines contain anti-freeze" claim before, and its just patently false. Its so false, in fact, that I can't even find where the root of that little tale starts. I invite you to read:

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=9

    Furthermore, I'm not really sure how you expect science to DISPROVE something. Seeing as, thats not what science does. In fact, science accepts that its impossible to entirely disprove a claim. That being said, the burden of proof is on you, as the person making the claim.

    Your statements regarding no research being done as to the cause of autism are just entirely uneducated.

    I also wonder where you got the idea that there have not been any double-blind placebo controlled tests. As early as 1986:

    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender....

    MMR was found safe in just such a study.
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    If antifreeze is not in vaccines then I apologize for the misinformation on my part, but what of the other ingredients? They're okay to be injected into children?

    I was not saying I expect them to disprove it. I was saying they have done neither. They cannot make a claim that vaccines are not linked to autism when there is no proof one way or another. I still have yet to find any scientific double blind studies inclusive of fully vaccinated children vs. unvaccinated children. I’d even be curious just to see the rates of autism amongst vaccinated vs. unvaccinated.

    I do not believe MMR is the only problem here. However, the last study I saw that said MMR was not linked to autism had a study population of 38. That is not a study population that’s a classroom size in NYC. The article you sent is just a summary of studies, not a study itself. Studies I’d have to pay to access.

    What do you believe causes autism?
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    If you read the link I posted, you will see that the presence of the other ingredients are exactly as overblown and (in some cases) entirely false as anti-freeze.

    They have done studies. Numerous, numerous studies. I don't know what study you're referring to with a population of 38, but Google for Pubmed, and look at results for vaccine studies. These links have been *thoroughly* disproved.

    But it doesn't matter.

    Anti-vaccinationists simply respond with allegations of big pharma "funding" the studies.

    I'm not sure you understand what a double-blind study is, to be honest. You keep repeating the phrase, but it doesn't really apply to something like vaccination. Unless you think autism isn't an empirically-distinguishable disorder?

    There is no need for the study to be double-blinded. Either the vaccines cause a higher prevalence of autism, or they don't. Case closed. By saying it needs to be double-blind you are essentially saying that some children may not *really* have autism, they may just have received unconscious cues from the doctors that they were getting the real vaccine, and are just acting as though they have autism.

    I don't *believe* (I'm not being a stickler, word choice is important here) in any cause of autism. Looking at the studies, I find that the cause most backed up by the evidence is that there is a genetic link. However, if tomorrow a study comes out that seems to indicate its from....freon....I would be more than willing to immediately change that position.

    This is what anti-vaccinationists are unable (or unwilling) to do.
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    Also, just for future readers here, the epidemic so therefore not genetic comment you made isn't correct either.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but if you accept that you're wrong on this many fronts, and you've been listening to these people and believing what they have to say on all these points, why can't you accept that its possible you're misinformed?
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    Courtney makes a good point about how you need to look at the methodology. As I am in the process of completeing my doctorate a big component fof research is not only looking at the results but also the level of evidence. Pleas check out the oxford centre for Evidence-based Medicine levels of Evidence and when you start putting all these vaccines into the calssification system you will see that they do not present high LOE. In response to your claim about studies dissproving the autism link I have the message below for you Andrew The landmark study in 2003 showing that there was not a link between autism and vaccines has been invalidated. This past year The Center for Disease Control Director Dr. Julie Gerberding issued a 15 page report to the House Appropriations Committee (http://evidenceofharm.com/VaccineDataLinkReport...) in which she states that the landmark study used to show that there is not a link is full of flaws and in essence needs to be redesigned. She is quoted as saying to use the VSD data "would be uninformative and potentially misleading.” Unfortuanteley this report has not yet reached the mainstream media so many people continue to cite the landmark study that there is not a link, when in reality the Center for Disease Control no longer considers this study valid. As it stands now we don’t really know if there is a link or not. Whenver there is a risk, which there is people need to make an informed decision. As a healthcare provider, would never give a treatment to a patient with explaining the benefits and risks and makin sure that I have their consent. Personally I am not against vaccines but do beleiev that some are harmed by them, we do not have the right to vaccinate all in hopes of preventing disease at the cost of a few lives, every life is precious and it is the parents that must live with the consequences so informed consent should also apply to vaccines as it is a medical procdure. Personally I would love to see studies comparign vaccianted to unvaccinated children even if they couldn't do a double blind study perhaps they could do a retrospective study looking at populations of chidren that aren't vaccinated and also studies to look at while some children are susceptible to vaccines and others aren't . BUt as Dr. Healey reported "they are afraid of what they will find out"
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    You all keep commenting that "we just don't know". All the research I find, that is actually compelling, well-done research, points quite clearly to a genetic link.

    As for one "landmark" study being invalidated:
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371...

    http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/h...

    There have been a plethora of studies invalidating the vaccine-autism link.

    I really don't know where you're getting your facts from.
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    I think there is a real desire to understand Autism, to know why it happens, to know how to prevent it, etc. But don't let the attractiveness of a theory make you stubborn. There is real research being done on this topic by people just as concerned as you, and just as dedicated. But they are not willing to settle until they can find convincing and valid results. If you care about the autistic population and the future of children, then support sound research. Don't propagate misinformation for the sake of raising awareness.

    We understand your dedication to this cause, but by blinding yourselves to real data, you lose the support of those who consider themselves rational.
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    Andrew...your a moron!!!
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    Im gonna show you what its like to be hurt beachwood? just wait im sick of people like you youll get whats coming to you all
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    ANDREW...I dont think you have ever read a vaccine insert! Your vaccinated kids are a danger to both vaxed and unvaxed. The vaccines with live viruses can shed! Bet you didn't know that!

    And... we don't have herd immunity in this country. When you get older the vaccines ware off. And, all the the immigrants we have here that haven't been vaxed.

    Go to the FDA and CDC websites and do some research.....moron!!

    Please get educated so you don't sound so foolish!!
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    Le, I'm sorry I had to delete your other comments. They just weren't even understandable.

    I'm not sure where you got your information from, but based on your comment you don't understand what herd immunity is.

    And not to be a stickler, but you're suggesting I get educated, calling me a moron, and in all honesty you can't even spell "wear". You, my friend, are exactly whats wrong with organizations such as NJCVC.

    You have a lot of heart, but not a lot of information. I suggest you redirect your vitriol towards getting your facts straight prior to engaging anyone in an argument.

    Thank you for commenting.
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    I think the grammar of these comments shows the value these people put on education. They refuse to educate themselves about topics and opt to go with what seems like an easy answer.

    You + are = You're, as in "Andrew, you are a moron."
    your = possession, as in "Your grammar skills suck le."
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    GINA....many people do that...BIG DEAL!

    I am much more educated then you are!!

    Stop trying to change the subject!!

    Apparently, "your" comment shows.. your under a rock!!
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    Le, do you understand the definition of educated? Because you certainly don't understand the definition of "then".

    Many *uneducated* people "do that".

    So, do tell, exactly where did you gain this "education" which you continually speak of but show no evidence of having acquired?
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    Yes, this website is a crock. They allow certain comments. What a waste of time spent here.
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    I allow all comments that are not rehashes of comments already posted -- and debunked.
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    Hello Andrew,
    Yes, I notice you deleted some of Le's comments. But, you didn't delete the other nasty comments. I find that interesting! Was it because that one was about you?

    I would first start with learning how to spell Thimerosal. Then I would research more about vaccine ingredients and symptoms. (whoever put together this page didn't do a good job. I can't see all of my text as I am typing it.

    If you would research the MMR. You would then know Thimerosal has never been in it. It would kill the live viruses. Are you aware it is a live virus vaccine? It is well known, even with trace amounts, that the mercury level with so many shots has been way over the limits! I believe, it is most of the ingredients in these vaccines that are causing Autism and other neurological issue, Just look at the possible side affects in the inserts. Many
    are neurological.

    You make a point about Thimerasol being around us in everyday life. It is not safe in our environment and it is not safe injected into our kids bodies at any level. That goes for all the other chemicals in these shots.

    "I am for choice when it's an informed choice" COME ON!! You are for "choice" if you agree
    with that choice? Admit it, Andrew, you are not for choice.

    Please, Please, go to the government websites and read the vaccines inserts. You are working against our children. Most people see the light when their kids are damaged. Is this what you want?

    Well, I can't spend all day educating you!

    Goodbye,

    Lisa
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    If you actually wanted the truth, you wouldn't be censoring comments.
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    I don't follow. I deleted her comments, but not the other nasty ones. And that somehow means I'm trying to censor people from commenting about me?

    No. As I said, I'm not having my comment section filled up with the same comment I've already responded to. If you post essentially the same thing as someone else that I've already replied to, I'm going to delete your comment. This is not a platform for your misinformation. You have your rally for that.

    You are most correct on the MMR/mercury statement, I misspoke. It was never present in the MMR vaccine.

    You are making a lot of claims and not giving any evidence to support them. You say it is "well known". I would like to see the study that indicates that vaccines cause above-safe limits of mercury to be introduced in to the body. I have *given* you evidence that supports what I am saying, if you (and all the other commenters who repeat the same tired claims) would take the time to read it.

    You don't want to do that, though. You believe what you believe, and thats that. You don't want to be confused with the truth.

    I have no idea where you're getting that I said thimerasol is around us in every day life. I said mercury is all around us? Thimerasol is a preservative.

    I am most definitely for a choice, and I will repeat myself once more, when it is an informed choice. You call yourself informed, but it ends there. You have no evidence to back up any of your claims. You are, in essence, parroting what you heard someone else say. I sure don't want people like you making decisions that will affect my children.

    Please, please, before posting again, go back through these comments and read the information I have supplied. If you are actually interested in the topic you should want the truth, not just the information that is congruent with what you WANT to believe.

    Thank you.
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    And Courtney, try to follow here. I'm not censoring comments, I'm just not allowing you to spam your nonsense repeatedly when I have *addressed everything in your comment already*. Do you understand?
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    You did not address a thing in the comment you deleted off of your page. You are the one who is afraid of the truth. You're just as bad as all the pharm. companies. Do you even have a degree in ANYTHING(I'm not sure b.s. counts)?

    Vaccinate your children. Go for it. Give them the mandatory ones. Give them the recommended ones. Inject them over and over again with things that have never been thoroughly tested. See how they turn out. They might be fine, they might not. I mean who knows if you have the genetic link. They don't test for that before they give vaccines. Even though they've conceded once that a girl's autism was caused by aggravating a pre-existing mitochondrial disorder. Maybe your kids will get lucky, but freedom means allowing me not to take that chance.
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    You're creating a straw man argument. Who is saying to vaccinate anyone with untested vaccines? Certainly not me. All of the vaccines on the market have been tested.

    I fail to see how I'm "afraid of the truth". The evidence, one more time, *does not support your claim*. The safety of vaccines has been tested time and time again, in study after study. Therefore, I believe in the safety of vaccines. Where does the fear come in? Why would a rational, logical person come to any other conclusion?

    I'm just as bad as the pharmaceutical companies because I don't believe the quackery you and your movement is shoveling.

    Admit it, you didn't read a single one of the articles I linked to, did you.
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    Deleted. Read the links, or don't comment. Thank you.
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    It is not a good idea to go agnostic when evaluating childhood vaccines. The jury may be out on the vaccine=autism link, but you may want to speak to the parents who have watched their children “disappear” after undergoing vaccination. It is ignorant to dismiss anecdotal evidence and rely on ivory tower theories. Individual vaccines may have been tested, but the schedules have not. What we do know is that there are no studies supporting the safety of administering multiple combo vaccines made by different pharmaceutical companies in one doctor visit. The schedules are aggressive and nobody in the health community is looking at the potential saturation point our children may be facing.

    Two wrongs don't make a right – at what point is it worth risking your child’s health and life to a vaccine that has serious adverse advents? Is it worth the risk for a disease that is transmitted sexually, such as hepatitis B? Or diseases that have minimal prevalence rates such as hepatitis B and the flu? Or a vaccine that doesn’t work (e.g., varicella)?

    The bottom line is what began as a well-intended vaccine health policy has gone off track. Some vaccines that address communicable diseases are ineffective (e.g., varicella, flu) and unnecessary (e.g., hepatitis B) for infants and school-aged children. Further, the ingredients found in the vaccines (e.g., aluminum) have not been tested.

    It is extremely disappointing to see people who and organizations that question vaccines demonized and characterized in negative ways. As a parent, I would think the health and medical communities would commend parents for taking their children’s’ health seriously; but alas, this is not the case.

    I ask before you cast judgment, please take a moment to walk in the shoes of a parent trying to base his/her child’s health plan on a severe lack of information on childhood vaccines.
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    I'm not going to go through the same tired old spiel again and again. You, one more time, say vaccines have not been tested. Please. Research. Your statements.

    You through a lot of infinitives out. "Never", "nobody". The saturation point of what? The chemicals? There certainly have been studies involving just that. Again, check Pubmed if you're interested. The conclusion was these so-called "toxins" amount to no more than 1 mg at a time, even with an extremely aggressive vacinnation schedule.

    It is extremely disappointing for me to see organizations such as NJCVC, who operate with a completely distorted view of the facts, and refuse to adjust their claims based on evidence. This kind of thinking, and these sorts of policies, help no one.

    They're stroking their own ego and making themselves feel better by assigning the blame to some evil outside force. Be it "big pharma", their doctor, the vaccines, whatever. The bottom line is all indications are its a genetic disorder. As painful as it may be to accept that there is no boogeyman out there injecting your kids with autism-causing chemicals, the sooner you do, the sooner you can start really helping the autistic population.

    Furthermore, I might also add that I feel little sympathy for anyone who is operating with "a severe lack of information on childhood vaccines." The information is out there, you need only look.
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    How do you feel about children who die from encephalopathy of the brain after receiving a vaccination? That is a known possible side-effect taken right from the prescribing information (PDR) but I am curious if you think that it is ok for some children to die for the "cause" of herding immunity.
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    How do you feel about people who die from infection when having an appendectomy? Because that is a known possible side-effect of the procedure.

    Still, much like with vaccines, the odds are much more in your favor having the procedure done.

    How about aspirin? One in every some-cumbersome-number of people will have gastrointestinal bleeding.

    There are risks with any medical procedure or treatment. Your side loves to over-blow the risks involved with vaccination, and turn a statistically insignificant possibility in to a metaphorical crapshoot.

    This is taken right from the physicians desk reference for what vaccine, exactly?

    You're all posting the same vague references. The bottom line is, studies have been done, they have found no adverse effects to vaccination.

    Its that simple.

    You bring me a very well produced study that shows otherwise.
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    My side? Don't jump to conclusions. I am someone who lost a family member when she was 6 years old from getting a routine DTP vaccine. She was diagnosed with encephalitis. I can tell you it was documented to be caused by the vaccine and your government pays roughly a quarter of a million dollars a year to pay for her medical needs at her nursing home. She has been in a chronic veg. state for the past 15 years. I know it is hard to believe, but you aren't the reigning expert on vaccines. Please cite for me a study using unvaccinated children as the control. Surely you can understand why their are people out there who would be interested in reading a study like that?
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    The money comes from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund. You knew that the fund existed, right?
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    Infantrix DTaP vaccine prescribing information http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_infanrix.pdf

    I'm not part of the NJ Coalition in any way but I am assuming that parents just want to know all the information listed in the PI before having their children injected. This kind of information is not given to us, generally, by the doctors before giving the vaccine. Not really informed consent.
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    Look for a study in 2003 done by (I believe) Dr. Kathleen Neuzil. As I'm not the "reigning expert on vaccines" I can't produce a study to match every piece of criteria it takes to convince you, I didn't claim I could.

    As I said, the risks are completely overblown. I'm sorry to hear that happened to someone in your family. I'm sorry to say, you knowing one of the statistically minute number of people (0.0007%) who have had such a reaction to a vaccine doesn't make for any more of a compelling argument.

    Compare 0.0007% negative reactions to the vaccine to the Diphtheria fatality rate (which is just one of the 3 diseases) which is estimated to be anywhere between 5 and 10%.

    I never claimed to be the "reigning expert on vaccines". I'm quoting you real numbers, I've linked to real studies, and I've answered all of the comments on here with logical arguments based on the facts. You've brought me an anecdote and a condescending attitude, but no facts or citations.
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    You say "the risks are overblown". But, when it happens to your child or to your family member, the risks are not overblown. It all gets back to vaccine consent. Since there are risks associated with vaccines, parents should have the right to consent.
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    How about children with suppressed immune systems? Why do they have to be exposed to the viruses that your unvaccinated children will carry?

    I understand that your child has had developmental issues, and that is an incredibly tough thing to deal with. I also understand that the natural response is to start looking for someone or something to blame. It can't just be chance. If you can explain it, if you can rationalize it down to a nice simple cause like a shot he shouldn't have gotten, it seems easier to handle.

    Look up the logical fallacy of "post hoc ergo propter hoc".

    The bottom line is, there is *no* evidence that points to that conclusion. So you can dance around all day talking about a right to choose. You're advocating choice, great, but you're supply bogus evidence to justify why vaccination should not be mandatory.

    Furthermore, you began this entire "war of words" defending a rally that was organized by an organization that is either being intellectually dishonest, or is somehow living in a news bubble. They continue to claim that vaccines cause autism.

    I'm sorry if I seem callus, but if you do a small amount of research in to the massive cost of lives these baseless vaccination fears have caused (start with http://www.comminit.com/en/node/1540), you might see why I don't take lightly an organization such as NJCVC continuing to propagate false rumors.

    So if you want t continue to seek out a boogeyman for your child's developmental issues, go right ahead. The facts don't back up your, or the NJCVC's claims, but its a free country. If it makes you feel better, go waste money supporting organizations such as these, and time attending rallies such as the one in Trenton.
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    Also, in regards to your other post, I'm not sure if you understand what a peer reviewed journal is. You can publish an article without original research.

    If he actually had something to say -- and wasn't just looking to make a quick buck by cashing in on a gullible public -- he could have gone any number of routes other than the "buy my book" one.
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    This is from the actual PDR:

    Whole-cell DTP vaccine has been associated with acute encephalopathy. 21 In the National Childhood Encephalopathy Study (NCES), a large, case-control study in England, children 2 to 35 months of age with serious, acute neurologic disorders, such as encephalopathy or complicated convulsion(s), were more likely to have received DTP vaccine in the 7 days preceding onset than their age-matched controls. Among children presumed to be neurologically normal before entering the study, the relative risk (estimated by odds ratio) of a neurologic illness occurring within the 7-day period following receipt of DTP dose, compared to children not receiving DTP vaccine in the 7-day period before onset of their illness, was 3.3 (p<0.001). The attributable risk for all neurologic events was estimated to be 1:140,000 doses of DTP vaccine administered. In this study, a causal relationship between receipt of DTP vaccine and permanent neurologic injury was suggested. 1,37 - 40

    Granted, they have now switched to DTaP vaccine. How many children lost their lives before the switch was made? How many children will lose their lives now until professionals realize that something may be wrong? I don't pretend to have the answers, but neither should you. The bottom line is vaccinating and not vaccinated are both a gamble.
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    As you said, whole-cell hasn't been used since 2002. Even prior to that, 1:140,000?

    I gave you the statistic for diptheria mortality. 5-10%.

    They are not "both a gamble". One is a gamble, the other is a statistically insignificant risk.
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    andrew, your refusing to post my reply to your butchering of my statements with lies in order and not address anything i wrote shoes you are someone only trying to make your own case and your own ego sound better than they really are. regarding this bill it seems you are completely uneducated. you are unable to admit you were wrong )i.e. top pharma companies, nj having the highest rate) and only answer those you feel you can disprove.

    honestly, how can you sit here and imply you know all about this issue when you didnt even listen to the rally. you didnt know about mmr and mercury, you didnt know boys were more affected, you didnt know pharma is a huge economical issue in nj, you didnt know njs autism prevelance rate. how can you say blah blah blah when you dont know the basics. you just keep relaying that studies havent shown a link to autism and ignore any that do. that is not the issue or purpose of this bill, nor the sole concern at the rally.

    for you, yes i agree, you shouldnt have a choice since you arent informed about the issue at all. and like to be spoon fed.

    it is cute how
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    I'm sorry Amie, I really have a lot of trouble understanding what you're saying.

    I don't know where you're getting all this inside information as to what I didn't know. I didn't know about the *incorrect* facts you provided regarding the pharmaceutical companies in NJ. Who said I didn't know NJs prevalence rate? I was the one who supplied the correct information. NJ is not the highest.

    The same goes for boys being more effected. At what point did I say I was unaware of that fact? I said in my original entry that it was interesting that they chose to ONLY look at boys for their statistic, and I hypothesized that the rate amongst girls was probably not as impressive as the "155%" claim they went with.

    I misspoke on the MMR vaccine containing thimerasol, you're most correct. You should understand that it is rather difficult to be in my position. I'm attempting to juggle about 10 different conversations, all making off-the-wall claims, some of which I've heard before and some I haven't. I think I'm allowed an error.

    If you honestly believe that the organization RUNNING the rally, which I have linked to, is not attempting to link autism and vaccines....I really don't know what to tell you. You obviously have not read their site.

    Look, I know you're a true believer. I'm not going to change your mind, I realize that. I'm not trying. Just don't expect me to allow you to clutter up this thread with comments that are just rehashing what others have already said, and I've already debunked/provided a source against.

    You have your outlet to spread your misinformation.
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    Andrew, I'm very curious to know what you do for a living? Do you work in the health field? Are you a parent? Have you gone through the process of researching this issue for your child's sake?

    Most of us who are so fervent in our belief that parents need choice in New Jersey have children who were injured by vaccines. We would like to spare other parents the heartbreak we have gone through because we followed our doctors' recommendations without fully understanding the risks involved. Consider people who don't do their research as misled. You may not like our views, but boy, we are doing our research.

    Are you? Or is your missions simply to discredit us because you are being paid a hefty sum by some pharmaceutical company?

    Lay your cards on the table, boy, because inquiring minds would like to know.

    Most respectfully, Ross
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    Thanks for your insightful remarks.

    What I do for a living is immaterial, I didn't produce any of the studies that I've linked to, or referenced.

    Being a parent, or furthermore being a parent that "research[ed] the issue for [my] child's sake" doesn't effect the evidence I've given one bit.

    I admire your fervence, but it really has no bearing on whether or not the facts back up your claims. They don't.

    I am not affiliated with, nor have I ever received any "hefty sums" from any pharmaceutical company.
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    ya know, i find it horrible that you sat behind your little computer desk at mommy and daddys house, pretending to know anything about vaccines or the possible dangers, actually implying you were a parent yourself by saying things like "my child". going back and forth to your little ginacillen(how cute), acting like the two of you have independent thoughts, at least other than where you kids will hang out at double trouble park.

    how dare you. what real life do you know? you have absolutely no idea what it is like to have a baby you created enter this world. a child you immediately fall in love with so quickly and instantly, that you would die for in a second upon meeting them. this child depends on you for everything. never in your life have you wanted to make the right decisions. you have no idea what responsibility comes with parenthood, and you are a horrible person to sit at your keyboard questioning parents who have spent years researching, telling them they are looking for boogiemen to blame for their child's diagnosis.

    one day you will be a parent. you will sit there and hold your baby and "get it". then you will think back to this little blog that is your daydreaming attempt to make you feel like a real writer. you will think back to the one topic that got all the attention. the one that actually recieved comments. you will think back on this, and look at your baby, and feel the most guilt you have ever felt in your life. you will think of how much you love your baby, and think of how much all of us who responded to your posts desperately cared for our children. you will think of those with disabled children who read your posts making thier situation be nothing more than an ego boost for yourself, or to impress your girlfriend.

    i know at this point in your life, you will dismiss me, but im telling you when you hold your own baby and think of this, you will hate yourself, and wish you could go back and apologize to everyone whose devastating life, or overwhelming parental fears you trivialized. you will wish you werent so immature and arrogant, and could take it back.

    and if when you hold your baby and think of this, you dont feel that, you dont feel that guilt, well then all i can say is im sorry for your own child and their future, and im not referring to vaccinations.

    then again, although i would never wish anything towards someones child, there is always irony, and you may one day find yourself on the other end of your self-serving comments.
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    That's ironic, Amie, I find it horrible you sat behind your little computer desk, pecking away your keyboard, your only credentials the fact that you procreated. You act as if you have independent thoughts, and yet all I hear from you are parroted and misinformed, semi-literate responses that could be cut and paste from these anti-vaccinationist propaganda websites.

    How are I? How dare I....look at the evidence and make a conclusion? Indeed. You spend your entire paragraph prattling on about how much you love your child. Congratulations. No one claimed you didn't. But to infer that anyone else has any less knowledge of the subject than you, simply because they themselves don't have children, is absolutely hilarious. It illustrates exactly what sort of person I'm dealing with here. Big on heart, short on brains. You, much like Jenny McCarthy, feel that the simple fact of having a child yourself, somehow eclipses all the evidence and bears your claim out for you. I have news for you, it doesn't. You all love to try to get over the fact that you have NO REAL EVIDENCE by playing the pity card. It's so rough, if you only knew, and on and on. Yeah, I'm sure it is rough. But if you really and truly cared about what was wrong with your child, you'd want real answers. Not feel-good answers, not simple answers. Real answers.

    I'm a horrible person, really? Why? Because I actually spent the time to look at the evidence, and point out the completely fallacious nature of your entire movements argument? Let me tell you something Amie, if I add to the voice of reason on the internet, and in any way lead to just one person actually ignoring people like you and getting their children vaccinated, I will have done more good than any one on your side (Mother or not). I don't much care that you "did a lot of research". You are advocating a position that could potentially lead to the deaths of the children of other uninformed parents. So excuse me while I don't mince words and dance around the issues to spare your delicate sensibilities. You, being uninformed and uneducated on the issue, and yet continuing to propagate your misleading nonsense, are a horrible person. You are contributing to a movement that is causing untold damage; that we won't even begin to be able to realize the full extent of for years to come.

    Furthermore, when and if I am ever a parent, the furthest thing from my mind will be the insane ramblings of (I say it again) a bunch of people looking for boogeymen in vaccines, in the environment, or in whatever else. I will, putting aside my own ego, do what is best for my child and get them vaccinated. I won't toss them to the whims of whatever disease chooses to grab a hold of them, just to remove myself from the potential list of causes for whatever conditions they might have been born with.

    I really adore comments from people like you, because they really illustrate how baseless the whole anti-vaccinationist argument is. You have done far more to prove my point, than anything I could have ever said in the original post. If you had some real evidence, some study, some factual claims, you would be discussing those. Not resorting to petty straw-man arguments and ad hominem attacks. You, Amie, are everything that is wrong with your entire movement, summed up in one little package, and posting on my site.

    Just as a side note, Ginacillen? What are you talking about?
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    you have repeatedly chosen to omit all the websites which correct the misinformation you have written which none of which were any type of antivaccination forum. they were from regional news sources.

    but that is all besides the point. you are a 22 year old child. you are not a parent. you are not a medical doctor. what dont you get? parents dont care about what you think because it isnt a personal issue for you, and will never be one until you have your own children. i didnt bother writing you last night because i care about vaccine choice or not. the fact is, your "research" couldnt be 1 one hundreth of the research parents do- those for or against vaccines. how selfish can one be to say they have researched a subject as much as any parent, let alone those who gather information for their child with a disability or illness.

    look andrew, i get it. you are a wannabee writer, who likes to twist things around, ignore certain key points, and ignore any information which you dont agree with. but you also have a problem with not reading correctly-
    "You spend your entire paragraph prattling on about how much you love your child."
    i didnt go on and on about how I love MY child. i am telling you, one day, YOU will love YOUR child like that, and when that day comes, you will "get it". you can sit and think and plan and make decisions now on what you will do as a parent, but those things mean nothing until you hold your own child. PARENTS read the cdc warning from the inserts of some vaccines which have a death listed as a very rare, but possible side effect. parents worry about that tiny possibility. those without children, like yourself, are seeing it as too rare to worry about. when you are a parent, you will understand the magnitude of the word "death" when referring to your child no matter what the context.

    "But to infer that anyone else has any less knowledge of the subject than you, simply because they themselves don't have children, is absolutely hilarious"
    what books have your read, what lectures have you gone to, what doctors, specialists, and pharmacuetical companies have you spoken with. how long have you been researching this issue. what other resources are you finding information from. what does you pediatrician think(this one doesnt pertain to you)? how in depth have you researched the vaccination safety and effectiveness tests? what studies have most influenced you. have you looked into the economic value of vaccines in relation to the economy and healthcare system as a whole? have you spoke with parents, doctors, and specialists of and researched illnesses such as autism, asthma, allergies, neurological disorders, ect ect ect? have you done anything else other than google?

    no andrew, no one cares what you think because without a child, and being a 22 yr old child yourself, your words are without meaning. when people say something along the lines "if it were me, i would have gotten out of the stock market 6 months ago". everyone gets quiet and thinks to themselves "but he doesnt even play the stock market, he has no money to invest". you andrew have no investment in this issue. you can play from the sidelines all you want, but the parents are the ones putting their life investment up.

    and your writings, bios, and pictures are all \over the internet, no typing away required. have a good life andrew, hopefully you will never have to be searching for your child's "boogieman".
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    I actually have done a little research of my own....er...well...YOUR kind of research, and what I turned up is no surprise. You like to use this "I'm a parent and nobody who isn't could possibly understand" argument on a lot of message boards. They entertained it no more than I have.

    I'm going to try my best not to correct you grammatically, and just look at what you are intending to say in this comment.

    Kindly do not speak for "parents" in the general. You don't care. Thats great. You have your little pseudo-truth and you're clutching on to it with both hands. The fact of the matter is parents, that is, parents who actually care about doing what is best for their children DO care. Do they care about my posts specifically? Of course not, I'm not saying they should/do. They do, however, care that when they actually look in vaccination efficacy and safety, they find a chorus of comments on just how ridiculous your side of the debate (if you could even call it that) is.

    You know, I've read about people like you in the abstract. I've read about logical fallacies, but I've never actually met someone who spews so many in one breath. How selfish can I be to say I have researched the topic as much as any parent? I suppose it depends on where you're putting the emphasis there. If you mean ANY parent, as in, is there any parent out there that has done more research than I have? Of course. If you're implying that every parent inherently, just by being a parent, has done more research than I have...uhh....kindly just stop replying.

    I try to make it a policy to not debate people who have serious intellectual deficits. I'm not trying to be insulting, but your arguments are so flawed, and so just...unbelievably nonsensical, I do wonder.

    And I'm sorry, I know I said I'd try not to, but "wannabee"? Really? Is that like a bee that really tries hard? Speaking on general terms about your grammar, if you expect anyone to take you seriously, you really should take a remedial writing course. Its not "ect", its "etc", as in etcetera.

    Moving on, I don't have to ignore any information that I don't agree with. You don't provide any information. That makes it easy.

    What doctors and lectures have I attended? Well. We'll start with Dr. Steven Novella, Director of General Neurology at Yale. How about Dr. Mark Crislip, over at Quackcast? How long have I been researching the issue? About 3 years. I wrote a research essay on the topic, and continued to follow developments thereafter. What studies have most influenced me? How about every damn one that has yet been published by any well-established organization? That good enough for you?

    Again, you go on about how "no one cares what [I] think" because I don't have a child. Stop speaking in generalities when you actually mean YOU don't care. Most people are not as simpleminded and, frankly, unintelligent as you. Looking around at posts you've done elsewhere, like JerseyShoreMoms, this is your shtick. I haven't quite pegged you yet, as to why you're so hung-up on thinking that being a parent is a requirement for doing any research. I'm thinking you define yourself as a parent, because you don't have much of anything else to identify yourself as. Am I right?

    I understand you want to do whats best, and spread this conspiratorial anti-vaccination thinking as far and wide as you possibly can, but the truth is while you're big in heart, you aren't so big in brains.

    I still don't get what you're even saying with regards to my blogs/pictures. I link right from my profile on these comments. Are you seriously thinking you somehow "discovered" some secret I was trying to hide? Yeah. Woo. You found me out.
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    And just wondering, what are you, 33?

    You know what the difference between your 33 years and my 23 years is? I spent mine trying to gather accurate information. You spent yours trying to back up beliefs you had already subscribed to, and never considering the consequences.
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    if you paid better attention to the entire rally, you would have had the FACTS. the rally had a huge list of speakers, well educated, informed parents, doctors, and professionals who have extensively researched vaccines. the rally wasnt saying autism is caused by vaccines. some speakers believed autism is triggered by either chemicals in the vaccines or the act of vaccinating, some were relaying the timeline of events that occured to THEIR own child.

    but their were many other points that were discussed such as the fact NJ houses 17 of the WORLDS 20 largest pharma companies. governor corzine himself has stated how important these companies are to nj's economy. so isnt it ironic that nj has the largest requirements for vaccinations, and was the first state to require the flu shot for daycare. more shots equals more money. and btw, nj also happens to have the highest incidence of autism as well.

    there was discusson on the fact that vaccines have tripled in the last 25 years, yes tripled. and so the irony is the amount of diseases of all kinds have increased at the same rate. we are giving our children more vaccines than we were ever given.

    talk about the fact that although vaccines may claim to be mercury free, they still have trace amounts of mercury(trace amounts higher than any safety standard allows). mercury is a toxin that can kill you but we inject this into our children. even taking mercury out, other toxins of aluminum and formaldehyde? maybe its only a small amount, but to a baby, the amount is actually much higher for proportions.

    speakers were referring to the rigorous schedule of vaccines resulting in a 15 month old having about 30 shots already. the schedule is too aggressive.

    and other states have exemptions already and have no problems. also, some states only require a very few vaccines, and again, they are fine. if the government wants to get involved, have them require any non us citizen to have been vaccinated before coming to the us. no vaccines, go home, legal or not.

    but most importantly, the rally was not anti vaccine. it was for a choice. the fact is the government has paid out about $900 million for proven cases which they admit the vaccine caused injury or death. the government has side effects listed on vaccines, some say death. it is not question that vaccines can harm certain people. so if it is known that vaccines MAY harm, how can the government say you must do it. whether you are pro/anti vaccine, you should have a choice. we are the parents, we should decide what goes into our children. conservative or liberal, america is supposed to be freedoms, not a dictatorship!!!
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    • v
    "The bottom line is, studies have been done, they have found no adverse effects to vaccination. "

    The CDC begs to differ:
    Update: Vaccine Side Effects, Adverse Reactions, Contraindications, and Precautions Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/000467...

    Chock full of substantiated adverse effects to vaccination.

    Vaccination also does not always equal immunization. I spoke with a pediatrician who told me that he had to receive rounds of vaccinations, was tested and there were no antibodies so he had to go through them again. How many people are regularly tested to make sure they are still (or were ever) "immune"? BTW, do you have all YOUR shots and boosters? Do you know if you're immune? If not, YOU could be putting others "at risk."

    "Anti-vaccinationists simply respond with allegations of big pharma "funding" the studies."

    I'd not like to ignore the validity of disclosure and conflicts of interest. If indeed there are no correlations between vaccination and autism, "Big Pharma" as it were would not need to BE funding studies. A company who stands to make billions of dollars off of any product should always use independent research studies.

    "Because I've heard all the claims you've made here time and time again, and with even a cursory amount of research, they are quite easily disproven."

    I noticed that any site someone brings to the discussion will be labelled as somehow not valid, while you expect that all of your links are indisputable, inclusing a link to Wikipedia (which anyone can log in and edit at will which is why Wikipedia is not always acceptable as a source for serious discussions and which I refrain from using as a source for my college work.) Your acceptance or denial of incoming linked information seems arbitrary.

    The CDC (personally I don't find the CDC the best source of information) is still conducting tests concerning vaccines. If we are all so absolutely sure that vaccines are safe (and even package inserts say they are not 100% safe), why is the CDC still studying these issues?
    http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/documents/vacc...

    If you believe in vaccination, do you also advocate for the development of a screening process to determine which of the population should be exposed to the components of any given vaccine before it is administered? Even the package inserts for the vaccines themselves state that there conditions under which the vaccine should not be administered, and reactions to the vaccine which then contraindicate further exposure.
 

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